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others who know that they will do them harm. SOCRATES: And, in your opinion, do those who think that they will do them good know that they are evils? MENO: Certainly not. SOCRATES: Is it not obvious that those who are ignorant of their nature do not desire them; but they desire what they suppose to be goods although they are really evils; and if they are mistaken and suppose the evils to be goods they really desire goods? MENO: Yes, in that case. SOCRATES: Well, and do those who, as you say, desire evils, and think that evils are hurtful to the possessor of them, know that they will be hurt by them? MENO: They must know it. SOCRATES: And must they not suppose that those who are hurt are miserable in proportion to the hurt which is inflicted upon them? MENO: How can it be otherwise? SOCRATES: But are not the miserable ill-fated? MENO: Yes, indeed. SOCRATES: And does any one desire to be miserable and ill-fated? MENO: I should say not, Socrates. SOCRATES: But if there is no one who desires to be miserable, there is no one, Meno, who desires evil; for what is misery but the desire and possession of evil? MENO: That appears to be the truth, Socrates, and I admit that nobody desires evil. SOCRATES: And yet, were you not saying just now that virtue is the desire and power of attaining good? MENO: Yes, I did say so. SOCRATES: But if this be affirmed, then the desire of good is common to all, and one man is no better than another in that respect? MENO: True. SOCRATES: And if one man is not better than another in desiring good, he must be better in the power of attaining it? MENO: Exactly. SOCRATES: Then, according to your definition, virtue would appear to be the power of attaining good? MENO: I entirely approve, Socrates, of the manner in which you now view this matter. SOCRATES: Then let us see whether what you say is true from another point of view; for very likely you may be right:--You affirm virtue to be the power of attaining goods? MENO: Yes. SOCRATES: And the goods which you mean are such as health and wealth and the possession of gold and silver, and having office and honour in the state--those are what you would call goods? MENO: Yes, I should include all those. SOCRATES: Then, according to Meno, who is the hereditary friend of the great king, virtue is the power of getting silver and gold; and would you add that they must be gained piously, justly, or
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