es
as well as makes?

True, he said.

And our desire is not to be skilful lyre-makers, or artists of that
sort--far otherwise; for with them the art which makes is one, and the
art which uses is another. Although they have to do with the same, they
are divided: for the art which makes and the art which plays on the lyre
differ widely from one another. Am I not right?

He agreed.

And clearly we do not want the art of the flute-maker; this is only
another of the same sort?

He assented.

But suppose, I said, that we were to learn the art of making
speeches--would that be the art which would make us happy?

I should say, no, rejoined Cleinias.

And why should you say so? I asked.

I see, he replied, that there are some composers of speeches who do
not know how to use the speeches which they make, just as the makers
of lyres do not know how to use the lyres; and also some who are of
themselves unable to compose speeches, but are able to use the speeches
which the others make for them; and this proves that the art of making
speeches is not the same as the art of using them.

Yes, I said; and I take your words to be a sufficient proof that the art
of making speeches is not one which will make a man happy. And yet I
did think that the art which we have so long been seeking might be
discovered in that direction; for the composers of speeches, whenever I
meet them, always appear to me to be very extraordinary men, Cleinias,
and their art is lofty and divine, and no wonder. For their art is a
part of the great art of enchantment, and hardly, if at all, inferior
to it: and whereas the art of the enchanter is a mode of charming snakes
and spiders and scorpions, and other monsters and pests, this art of
their's acts upon dicasts and ecclesiasts and bodies of men, for the
charming and pacifying of them. Do you agree with me?

Yes, he said, I think that you are quite right.

Whither then shall we go, I said, and to what art shall we have
recourse?

I do not see my way, he said.

But I think that I do, I replied.

And what is your notion? asked Cleinias.

I think that the art of the general is above all others the one of which
the possession is most likely to make a man happy.

I do not think so, he said.

Why not? I said.

The art of the general is surely an art of hunting mankind.

What of that? I said.

Why, he said, no art of hunting extends beyond hunting and capturing;
and when the prey is taken the