e suited, either by nature or habit
or both, cannot help feeling pleasure in them and applauding them, and
calling them beautiful. But those whose natures, or ways, or habits are
unsuited to them, cannot delight in them or applaud them, and they call
them base. There are others, again, whose natures are right and their
habits wrong, or whose habits are right and their natures wrong, and
they praise one thing, but are pleased at another. For they say that
all these imitations are pleasant, but not good. And in the presence of
those whom they think wise, they are ashamed of dancing and singing in
the baser manner, or of deliberately lending any countenance to such
proceedings; and yet, they have a secret pleasure in them.

CLEINIAS: Very true.

ATHENIAN: And is any harm done to the lover of vicious dances or songs,
or any good done to the approver of the opposite sort of pleasure?

CLEINIAS: I think that there is.

ATHENIAN: 'I think' is not the word, but I would say, rather, 'I
am certain.' For must they not have the same effect as when a man
associates with bad characters, whom he likes and approves rather than
dislikes, and only censures playfully because he has a suspicion of his
own badness? In that case, he who takes pleasure in them will surely
become like those in whom he takes pleasure, even though he be ashamed
to praise them. And what greater good or evil can any destiny ever make
us undergo?

CLEINIAS: I know of none.

ATHENIAN: Then in a city which has good laws, or in future ages is to
have them, bearing in mind the instruction and amusement which are given
by music, can we suppose that the poets are to be allowed to teach in
the dance anything which they themselves like, in the way of rhythm, or
melody, or words, to the young children of any well-conditioned parents?
Is the poet to train his choruses as he pleases, without reference to
virtue or vice?

CLEINIAS: That is surely quite unreasonable, and is not to be thought
of.

ATHENIAN: And yet he may do this in almost any state with the exception
of Egypt.

CLEINIAS: And what are the laws about music and dancing in Egypt?

ATHENIAN: You will wonder when I tell you: Long ago they appear to have
recognized the very principle of which we are now speaking--that their
young citizens must be habituated to forms and strains of virtue. These
they fixed, and exhibited the patterns of them in their temples; and
no painter or artist is allowed to innovate