k of the Church," said Campion, "and such a
quality as is inseparable. It must be visible, as fire is hot, and water
moist."

Goode answered that when Christ was taken and the Apostles fled, then at
least the Church was invisible; and if then, why not always?

"It was a Church inchoate," answered the priest, "beginning, not
perfect."

But Goode continued to insist that the true Church is known only to God,
and therefore invisible.

"There are many wolves within," he said, "and many sheep without."

"I know not who is elect," retorted Campion, "but I know who is a
Catholic."

"Only the elect are of the Church," said Goode.

"I say that both good and evil are of the visible Church," answered the
other.

"To be elect or true members of Christ is one thing," went on Goode, "and
to be in the visible Church is another."

* * * *

As the talk went on, Anthony began to see where the confusion lay. The
Protestants were anxious to prove that membership in a visible body did
not ensure salvation but then the Catholics never claimed that it did;
the question was: Did or did not Christ intend there to be a visible
Church, membership in which should be the normal though not the
infallible means of salvation?

They presently got on to the _a priori_ point as to whether a visible
Church would seem to be a necessity.

"There is a perpetual commandment," said the priest, "in Matthew
eighteen--'Tell the Church'; but that cannot be unless the Church is
visible; _ergo_, the visibility of the Church is continual."

"When there is an established Church," said Goode, "this remedy is to be
sought for. But this cannot be always had."

"The disease is continual," answered Campion; "_ergo_ the remedy must be
continual." Then he left the _a priori_ ground and entered theirs. "To
whom should I have gone," he cried, "before Luther's time? What prelates
should I have made my complaint unto in those days? Where was your Church
nine hundred years ago? Whose were John Huss, Jerome of Prague, the
Waldenses? Were they yours?" Then he turned scornfully to Fulke, "Help
him, Master Doctor."

And Fulke repeated Goode's assertion, that valuable as the remedy is, it
cannot always be had.

Anthony sat back, puzzled. Both sides seemed right. Persecution must
often hinder the full privileges of Church membership and the exercise of
discipline. Yet the question was, What was Christ's intention? Was i