among Christian
princes.[96] At a subsequent interview the conversation was renewed and
took a more general turn. The King spoke of the Court of Rome--the
ambitious magnificence of which, he said, "had been the cause of so many
wars, discords, and heresies." Had the Pope and Cardinals, he said,
observed the precepts of the Gospel and attended to the example of the
Fathers of the Church [several of whom the King mentioned, to Chapuys'
surprise], they would have led a different life, and not have scandalised
Christendom by their acts and manners. So far, Luther had told nothing but
the truth; and had Luther limited himself to inveighing against the vices,
abuses, and errors of the clergy, instead of attacking the Sacraments of
the Church, everyone would have gone with him; he would himself have
written in his favour, and taken pen in hand in his defence. Into the
Church in his own dominions he hoped, little by little, to introduce
reforms and end the scandal.[97]

These expressions were dangerous enough, but there was worse to follow.
"Henry maintained that the only power which Churchmen had over laymen was
absolution from sin"; Chapuys found that he had told the Queen that he was
now waiting for the opinions of the foreign doctors; when he had obtained
these he would forward them to Rome; and should not the Pope, in
conformity with the opinions so expressed, declare the marriage null and
void, he would denounce the Pope as a heretic and marry whom he
pleased.[98]

"The Lady Anne," Chapuys said, "was growing impatient, complaining that
she was wasting her time and youth to no purpose." The House of Commons
had already "clipped the claws" of the clergy, and it was not impossible
that, on the plea of the various and contradictory judgments on the
matter, they and the people might consent to the divorce.

The hope that the King might be held back by national disapproval was thus
seen to be waning. The national pride had been touched by the citation of
an English sovereign to plead before a foreign court. Charles V. feared
that the Pope, alarmed at the prospect of losing England, would "commit
some new folly" which might lead to war.[99] The English Nuncio in fact
informed Chapuys, much to the latter's astonishment, that the Pope had
ordered him to find means to reconcile the King and the Emperor. Chapuys
thought the story most unlikely. The Emperor would never have trusted the
Pope with such a commission, nor was the Pope