y-seven years," he replied.

"How old were you when you got into trouble first?"

"Fourteen."

"What was your first sentence?"

"Seven years' transportation."

"How did you like Australia?"

"Well, the place is well enough, and a man can get a living easier
abroad than he can at home. But I have been rather a queer customer in
my time. I don't believe there's a man in this prison, or in any
prison, who has gone through more hardships and punishments than I have
done."

"Were you ever flogged?"

"Flogged! I should think I have. Just wait until night, when I am going
to bed, and I'll let you see my back all in ridges with the cat."

"What effect had the flogging on your conduct?"

"Flogging takes out one devil and puts in seven. That's the effect it
had on me. But there's not one in a hundred could stand the floggings
and punishments I have endured. I had ten years once in Australia, and
I was in the penal class most of the time, and, by jingo! they know how
to punish there."

"Suppose I were to offer you 20_l._ to be flogged, would you accept the
money and take the flogging?"

"I should think I would, and that very quick, too. I would as soon take
a bashing as bread and water for seven days."

"Then a bashing, as you call it, would not frighten you from committing
a crime?"

"If I thought I was going to be caught even, I should not commit a
crime. A 'flat' or a 'mumper' may do a job to get into prison, but I
never do anything unless I believe I am to escape. It's the getting
caught, that's the crime, the punishment you have got to chance. A
fellow needn't begin thieving if he is to be frightened at punishment;
he would never make a living at it. It requires a fellow with a good
heart to be a thief, I can tell you; and if his heart is not in the
right place, he'd better keep on the square."

"Now, tell me; do you never think seriously about your evil ways? You
are getting up in years, and although you appear to be very robust in
your general health at present, you cannot expect to live very much
longer in this world."

"Well, to tell you the truth, I do sometimes think of leading an honest
life. But I am so hardened now to all punishment that I don't care very
much what I do. It's not easy for a man at my age to change all of a
sudden to be a Christian, and then it's so difficult to get work
suitable for one's abilities, that I am almost driven to go on the
cross. I have a very good brother, who has